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Routine "anythings"

In reference to the routine u/a string, we have d/c Hgb, u/a and TB
testing unless specifically asked for. We especially think that in
our suburban environment Pb testing also sucks. As a matter of fact,
why do we do routine PXs in older kids anyway?

Time to retire,
Bob Schwartz

Routine "anythings"

>>In reference to the routine u/a string, we have d/c Hgb, u/a and TB testing
unless specifically asked for. We especially think that in our suburban
environment Pb testing also sucks. As a matter of fact, why do we do routine
PXs in older kids anyway?<<

I agree. However, the politicians here in Jersey are making lead testing
mandatory at age 1 and 2 unless the parent specifically refuses it. I still
check Hgb at 9 months, but have dropped the 4 year old Hbg. I don't do
"routine" U/As.

-- Michael Foreman

Routine "anythings"

For those of us who practice with kids and families, IMHO, we all need to
talk more and automatically examine/ screen less. Peg Fitzgerald

Margaret A. Fitzgerald, MS, RN, CS-FNP USPS Mailing Address:
Fitzgerald Health Education Associates | 11 Appletree Ln
| Andover, MA 01810-4101
Home of Nurse Practitioner | Voice Mail:
Certification Exam Review '97 | (508) 470-3412
| FAX:
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| http://www.fhea.com

Routine "anythings"

In a message dated 97-06-07 02:36:06 EDT, hidden@email-address writes:

> I agree. However, the politicians here in Jersey are making lead testing
> mandatory at age 1 and 2 unless the parent specifically refuses it. I
still
> check Hgb at 9 months, but have dropped the 4 year old Hbg. I don't do
> "routine" U/As.
>
Many insurance companies are now insisting on lead testing--actually, since
the incidence in South Florida is so low, we are not required to do the
testing, but have to have a questionaire, inquiring about possible exposure
to lead. Just more paper to put in the chart. I've had a couple of kids
with "positive" screenings because of dad's occupation, or living in an old
house (30 years is very old around here), but so far no elevated lead levels
on kids we've tested.

Moshe Adler

Routine "anythings"

We need to talk more but will still need to test and screen. We may need to
incorporate risk questionairres for the "routine" screens but we cannot let
ourselves be muscled out of providing good health care by short sighted bean
counters who think that we health care providers are working at a
manufacturing plant instead of providing health care!!!!!!!

enough is enough.

Matt Sadof MD

Routine "anythings"

Not to belabor the point, but, honestly, folks, not including preschoolers,
how many of you have found anything significant during a routine annual or
biennial PX? An occasional hernia? A .000025 mm. node that a parent is
concerned about? Most abdominal masses are found by parents. Most serious
conditions are accompanied by symptoms and therefore come under the aegis
of a sick visit.

Stuff that we should be doing such as visual exams (i.e. VAs and cover/uncover
tests) are frequently omitted and shunted to the eye guys.

Shouldn't most routines go the way of the dinosaur. I'd like to hear from
some of our U.K. brethren. Patients report that there are no routine
checkups in Great Britain. Is that so?

Bob Schwartz (no flaming, please)

Routine "anythings"

In message , "Dr. Bob"
writes
>Shouldn't most routines go the way of the dinosaur. I'd like to hear from
>some of our U.K. brethren. Patients report that there are no routine
>checkups in Great Britain. Is that so?
>
>Bob Schwartz (no flaming, please)
>
>ABSO....BLOODY....LUTELY

The parents if they are concerned pester the family physician
(please remember the community based pediatricians in the UK are
attendings trained in community medicine that have clinics where the
kids are referred by the school, the community pediatric nurse or the
family practioner. there is no direct access by concerned parents.

The sort of things they do are eye tests for schools, some vaccination
programs and hearing tests.

Most GPs (family phyicians) offer a Well baby check once or twice in the
first three months. After that contact is at the parents request or at
vaccination time.

The worried parent often takes the child to the emergency room where
they are seen initially by junior staff. If indicated the child is
reviwed by the junior pediatrician (first or second yr resident). More
often than not the child is admitted if its out of office hours.

Hopes this helps

To put it in perpective there not too many fresh diagnoses we make in
emergency medicine that have been so longstanding that they would have
been picked up when the child was asymptomatic in a six monthly
review!!!

Hugo Dowd
Emergency Dept.
Cardiff Royal Infimary
Newport Rd
Cardiff

> Admin questions: "hidden@email-address" or "http://www.pcc.com/lists/"
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--
hugo dowd

Routine "anythings"

Hugo,

Perhaps you would like to pay us a visit up the road at Lansdowne, and ask
how the school health service really works. For the sake of our foreign
brethren, and other UK doctors who may have got hold of some wrong ends of
sticks...

> The parents if they are concerned pester the family physician
> (please remember the community based pediatricians in the UK are
> attendings trained in community medicine that have clinics where the
> kids are referred by the school, the community pediatric nurse or the
> family practioner. there is no direct access by concerned parents.
>

Specialists in Community Child Health are fully trained specialists,
accredited by the RCPCH etc in Paediatrics, who have special skills in
educational, social, neurodevelopmental etc. medicine, often
subspecialising in audiology, vision etc., but always with a concentration
on multidisciplinary and interagency working. What this means is that we
generally have a handle on children with complex multisystem disorders that
require special help in order to benefit from education, from their social
environment, etc.

> The sort of things they do are eye tests for schools, some vaccination
> programs and hearing tests.
>
With the exception of vacc and imm, almost exclusively done by GPs, all
these are carried out by school nurses. Height, weight, vision and hearing
with a health questionnaire are administered at school entry; H&W normally
repeated once, H and V repeated at intervals throughout primary and
secondary school age. School Dr discusses any worries that come out of this
process with school nurse; may see child himself or refer back to GP or on
to another specialist.

> Most GPs (family phyicians) offer a Well baby check once or twice in the
> first three months. After that contact is at the parents request or at
> vaccination time.
>

Routine suggested by Hall (Health for All Children Ed 4, 1996) is 6/52 and
8/12 checks medically, 7/12 distraction, 18/12 growth & milestones, 3 yr
ditto (we also do a 4-yr handover from HV to school HS, but often does not
need to see well child). This is on top of neonatal bloods, but virtually
no other invasive screening tests, although Fe and Hb electrophoresis are
under discussion for at-risk groups.

> The worried parent often takes the child to the emergency room where
> they are seen initially by junior staff. If indicated the child is
> reviwed by the junior pediatrician (first or second yr resident). More
> often than not the child is admitted if its out of office hours.
>

All the evidence suggests that the worried parent stays at home and worries
a lot. Pharmacists see more illness in children that Drs do. GPs come next.
Although I know a lot of illness arrives in Acc&Em, it's really a small
fraction of all that is really out there.

> To put it in perpective there not too many fresh diagnoses we make in
> emergency medicine that have been so longstanding that they would have
> been picked up when the child was asymptomatic in a six monthly
> review!!!
>

I agree that there is a lot of misplaced faith in "screening" tests. This
often seems largely to be profit-driven, as few schemes actually survive a
real cost-benefit analysis. Has anyone analysed the number of skin and
lymphoid cancers caused by unnecessary IVUs done as a result of
false-positive urinalyses in children? There was an article some years ago
looking at the cost to families of neonatal screening. There were mothers,
years after a false-positive PKU test, who found some entirely unrelated
problems with their offspring: "Ooh doctor, you know he had something wrong
with his blood test when he was born." These things scar.

On the other hand, many of the things you do see in emergency medicine are
related to diagnoses we could make in primary health care and in general
paediatrics. Head injuries in children without cycle helmets, acute asthma
where the parents won't stop smoking, behaviour disorders, child abuse etc.
etc. Don't figure that a broken leg starts when Johnny falls off the monkey
bars; it starts with the adults that put up the apparatus, with the parents
who can't or won't understand the developmental age of their children, with
the lack of supervision...

I'm going on a bit aren't I? :)

Come and see us some time
All the best

TimF

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<\ \ hidden@email-address \ \ \
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Routine "anythings"

>
>Not to belabor the point, but, honestly, folks, not including preschoolers,
>how many of you have found anything significant during a routine annual or
>biennial PX? An occasional hernia? A .000025 mm. node that a parent is
>concerned about? Most abdominal masses are found by parents. Most serious
>conditions are accompanied by symptoms and therefore come under the aegis
>of a sick visit.
>
>Stuff that we should be doing such as visual exams (i.e. VAs and
cover/uncover
>tests) are frequently omitted and shunted to the eye guys.
>
>Shouldn't most routines go the way of the dinosaur. I'd like to hear from
>some of our U.K. brethren. Patients report that there are no routine
>checkups in Great Britain. Is that so?
>
>Bob Schwartz (no flaming, please)
>
>

I agree that the chance of finding a serious condition during any given
routine physical is very unlikely (probably because serious conditions are
rare to begin with), but how about looking at a general check-up as a
chance to discuss mundane but important issues (as another posting already
suggested). A sleep discussion at 4 or 6 months might prevent years of
sleepless nights for the child and parents. Stopping the bottle at 12
months (we all know how even by 18 months the battle might be lost) can
prevent later "bottle mouth" and years of restorative dentistry. Keeping a
child in the proper kind of safety seat for their age and weight can
prevent serious injury if there's an auto accident. Sunscreen, bike
helmets, drug and sex discussions - these are the "findings" that make
regular visits worthwhile. We'll all have thousands of these visits before
we catch the early neuroblastoma. And probably hundreds more for every VSD,
strabismus, or pre-malignant nevus we pick up.
Regarding the original question posted above:
"honestly, folks, not including preschoolers, how many of you have found
anything significant during a routine annual or biennial PX?"
If you look at sleep deprived parents, sunburns, and teenage drug use as
significant, certainly not compared to a life-threatening disease, yet
significant to the family involved, I think we all deal with significant
problems on a daily basis.

Michael Sachs, M.D.
General Pediatrician